CATALONIA -- Josep Rull: "It's impossible to go ahead inside the Spanish State" - VilaWeb
Josep Rull: "It's impossible to go ahead inside the Spanish State" - VilaWeb:
Josep Rull: "It's impossible to go ahead inside the Spanish State"
Rull, CDC's organizational secretary, spoke with VilaWeb this week
Josep Rull, the organizational secretary for Convergència Democràtica
de Catalunya, one of the parties that comprises Catalonia's ruling CiU
coalition, was interviewed by VilaWeb Global this week. Rull explained
the difference between CiU's two coalition members and how they plan to
achieve the independence of Catalonia. He also talked about membership
in the EU and EFTA, the harsh rhetoric coming out of the EU, and what
the campaign is doing to help convince reticent business leaders.
Can you explain to an international audience just what CiU, Catalonia's ruling party is?
CiU
is a coalition between a liberal party, Convergència, and a Christian
Democrat party, but both Catalanist. Catalanism is a movement, a
political movement, that wants freedom, democracy, and the recognition
of Catalonia as a nation. During 40 years we have been inside Spain and
now we are asking for freedom, for independence.
Can you tell us about the two parties that make up CiU?
Unió
Democràtica is in favor of the right to self-determination and they ask
for a confederal model. So, first reach the state, and then negotiate
the relationship between the new Catalan state and Spain. We,
Convergència, we think the best way is to open a new scenario with an
independent state, a Catalan state, in Europe, not in Spain, in Europe,
in the European Union. That's our hope. We want to give the decision to
the Catalan people. So we say, "Let people vote, let people decide for
themselves, let the Catalan people decide what they want to be." So the
first step is to hold this referendum/consultation. We say both things. A
referendum needs the authorization of the Spanish state; the
consultation we can organize with our own laws.
What's the next step after the referendum?
And
then, obviously, if we win, we will have to negotiate the result of the
referendum with the Spanish government and with the international
community. That's the last step. But there is a very important
difference between Catalonia and Scotland, that the British government
allows the Scottish people to vote, but we have a lot of trouble with
the Spanish government because they don't want us to decide our future
and they prohibit us from voting. That is, I think, the most important
difference. I insist that the first step is to vote. And we ask for help
from the international community. We think that democracy is a
universal principle that is supported by all modern nations at least in
Europe.
Recently, European Commission president, José Manuel Durão Barroso, has had harsh rhetoric for Catalonia's independence movement. How do you respond?
Barroso,
what did Barroso say for instance in 1990 with the reunification of
Germany? The treaties at that time didn't accept the possibility of
German reunification. And how did 60 million Eastern Germans join the
European Community at that time? So we think the problem is not just
legal, in Europe. It is an issue of political will and we do think that
the European Union will not build walls in the middle of Europe. I mean,
I cannot imagine Catalonia as an island inside Europe with closed
borders. I cannot imagine that, and the Catalan people cannot imagine
that and I think that the European people and the European Commission
cannot imagine that position. Because this position is very negative for
Catalonia, for Spain, and for Europe too. So, at the end of the day,
the EU will accept democracy and will find a solution, a political
solution.
Do you think the harsh rhetoric from the EU is turning Catalans off, making them less interested in Europe? And what about EFTA?
No,
I don't think so because we are Europeans and I think the majority of
the Catalan people want to be Europeans and want us to be a member of
the European Union. Our priority is to be a full member of the European
Union but the second chance, the second option is to be a member of
EFTA, that is, a member of the common market.
What will you do if the Spanish government doesn't let you hold a referendum?
We
have another possibility which is to use an election, an ordinary
election, and use this election to allow the Catalan people to vote,
with parties sharing a single point of an electoral program, that is,
'do you want Catalonia to become a new state, a new independent state of
Europe?' And if we win a majority then the Catalan Parliament will be
allowed to proclaim independence with the legitimation of the polling
boxes.
Lluís Corominas said recently that "we have to be prepared before declaring independence". In what way?
We
need international recognition; we have to build our own treasury; we
have to prepare different state structures, I mean, the day after the
proclamation of the Parliament we have to be prepared to support the new
situation.
There have been recent statements by business groups against independence. How are you trying to convince them?
The
aim of businessmen is to do business. And to have a good scenario to do
so. And we are trying to explain to them the advantages of having the
same tools of other nations: the tools of state. But we do think they
will accept the result of this referendum. Many of them, many of these
businessmen, business organizations, are in favor of the right to
self-determination. They say, "let people vote and then we will accept
the result". Obviously this is not comfortable for some of those
companies but they are in favor of democracy and many of them have
expressed that situation. And now we are also explaining to them that it
is impossible to go ahead inside the Spanish State because the
situation is very difficult for us: we have significant unemployment:
22% of people here in Catalonia. But we have a very important GDP. So
which is the problem? We give a lot and we receive less than we give. So
this is not fair, this is not good for business companies, for people,
for the whole population. And we have tried to change this situation, to
have a fair funding model with the Spanish State, fair for Catalonia
and in solidarity with the other regions of Spain. And this has been
impossible during the last thirty years.
Can you tell us how you frame the Triple Yes campaign in favor of independence?
The
opportunties we will have. We can build an extraordinary nation. We
want to live from our own efforts. That's what Catalan people are asking
for. This is a hopeful movement. These are our reasons. And another
thing. We have tried to reach an agreement with the Spanish State and
this has been impossible.